Graflex.org Forum Index Graflex.org
Get help with your Graflex questions here
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Standard Lens on 4x5 Auto Graflex?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Graflex.org Forum Index -> Reflex Help
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
PaulEwins



Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 17
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Auto Graflex is ready to go, but the lens that came with it won't focus to infinity. It'll focus to about 4m - 5m so its still usable for portraiture but its obviously not original. What was the usual lens that came with the Auto Graflex?

The lens I've got is a Kodak 8 1/2" f4.5 5x7 Anastgimatic. If a Super D came with a 190mm then I woud have thought that an 8 1/2" (215mm) lens would be OK. I've tried putting the mount flange on the back of the lens board instead of the front but it doesn't make much difference.

The focus on the ground glass on top agrees with the slip one on the back so I'm pretty sure that everything else is correctly set up.

While I'm asking about lenses, what is your favourite lens for the 4x5 reflexes?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
bartsf



Joined: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 9
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think you need a little longer lens. My 1925 Graflex catalog shows the 4x5 Auto Graflex as coming with a 10 inch (#35) Kodak Anastigmat f4.5 or a B&L Tessar 9 7/8 inch or a B&L Protar 9 1/4 inch with single elements at 16 3/8 inch.

Bart
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3219
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which "Auto" do you own, the Auto with fixed film plane from 1906-1922, Revolving Back Auto form 1906-1908, Revolving Back Auto from 1909-1941?
My RB Auto vintage 1910 came with a B&L planar 4 1/4 x 6 1/2 which I was told was approximately a 8 inch lens, iris died so I replaced it with a Kodak Anastigmat 8 1/2 inch, no problem focusing either from infinity to macro.
Now I suspect that there may be a problem with your lens, element not seated properly or element(s) reversed. Measure from film plane to lens board with bellows fully retracted to find the approximate minimun (widest) lens that the camera will focus at infinity. My "auto measures 8 inches, center of lens board (aluminum, 1/4 inch thick at threaded lens center) to ground glass plate at film plane.
Charles

_________________
Graflex Corp.was a supporter of Rain Forest Devastation.

[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2006-01-17 14:20 ]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PaulEwins



Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 17
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an RB auto, I think the later version. The viewing hood cover is hinged at the back, not the front.

With the bellows fully compressed its just on 8" from the back of the lensboard to the rear screen position. The lens itself is around 1 3/4" long, and only 1/8" of it protrudes from the rear of the lensboard.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3219
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was mistaken, my Kodak anastigmat is a 10 inch f4.5. The planar is a 200/205mm lens, opening the bed the planar is at infinity with less than 1/8 inch movement in rails from fully compressed. Your 8 1/2 Kodak should be at infinity by 1/2 inch bellows extension from full compress, if not then there is a problem with that lens.
You said that the view hood door is hinger at the rear so it is the 1916-1941 version. Serial number is either stamped in the lip of the view hood opening or behind the top of the view hood stamped into the door.
My information is the book by Richard Paine, "A Review of Graflex".There is no definitive factory lens used on the cameras over the years. 18 inch is the maximun focal length while 8 inch will be the widest for infinity focusing. 1909 list Zeiss Kodak Anastigmat #6 f6.3;Zeiss Protar ser VIIa #13 f6.3; Zeiss Tessar ser 1c #17 f4.5; Zeiss Tessar ser IIb f6.3;Zeiss Tessar ser IIb #7 f6.3; Cooke ser IIIa #7 f6.5; Cooke ser IV #27 1/2 f5.6.
From Graphic Graflex Photography first edition January 1940 is "Mininun Flange to Film Distance" edited to 4x5's only: Series D=6 3/4;RB Auto 8 1/4. Measurement was/is from the Front of the lens board to the film plane. Ad in the back of the book only list a Kodak Anastigmat F4.5 as the lens on a 4x5 camera for $242.50. Any lens from 8 1/4 to 18 inches that will mount onto the lens board and not protrude into the path of the mirror could have been installed by the factory or dealer.
I still think someone disassembled your lens for cleaning and did not get a element or group back to correct position effectively changing the focal length. Older soft focus lens accomplished this by moving the front element out from the rest of the lens resulting in the overall image being soft in focus which would sharpen up when the lens was stoped down. Old Kodak lens in barrel have set screws that hold elements in place which will leave signs of seating on the retaining rings of the elements.

Another trick is to be in a dark place, put a piece of white paper on a wall or stand, point the lens at a bright light source such as the sun thru a window, and position the lens until the sun is in focus and then measure fron the paper to the lens mount ring to get an approximate focal length.
Charles



_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PaulEwins



Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 17
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the help so far.

I did unscrew the cells from the barrel to clean the dust out, but didn't remove individual elements. There really isn't any scope to screw them back in wrong, the front cell has the name and serial number information while the back is blank. Unless of course a previous owner has been mixing and matching the cells to create different combinations.

I might try mounting a Caltar 210/5.6 on a board and see how that goes. The rear element will sit a lot further back so I'm not sure that it will be a completely valid comparison but it should provide some clues.

Meanwhile I may as well investigate lenses in the 240 - 300mm ball park .
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3219
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 8:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I got my 10 inch anastigmat I disassembled all elements, cleaned them, and reassembled the lens. There are set screws that hold the various elements locked in place, it is easy to be off one or two threads and still get the set screw to lock the element.
It could be that production varrancies resulted in a lens marked 8 1/2 but is actually 8 inches.
Try making a recesed lens board for the lens.
If lens is not at infinity focus wide open with full retraction of bellows how far must you stop down to get infinity focus?

_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PaulEwins



Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 17
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 210 Caltar wouldn't quite focus to infinity either, but got closer than the 8 1/2. I pulled the 8 1/2 apart and cleaned it again. It doesn't have set screws, the barrels for the cells are machined with a step, so you just screw it all the way in.

A recessed board would probably do the trick. I suspect the lens only needs to go another 10 - 20mm further back
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3219
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my 10 inch to remove the retainer bands one has to loosen the set screws.

I've been looking at the Vademecum but it has little information on Kodak lens. One section list the f4.5 anastigmat having been made in many sizes and was probably a Q15 design, which is as light travels thru to the film: convex front edge flat back element, air space, concave both sides element with wider to the front, air space, aperture blades, concave both sides narrower shallower side to front of lens next to a convex both sides with no air space (may be cemented) rear element.
I can disassemble and describe my 10 inch if needed.
Charles

_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
PaulEwins



Joined: 30 Apr 2002
Posts: 17
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I finally managed to get test shots done and it all looks good. The shutter was accurate on the one speed I used, the focus looks to be accurate and there weren't any light leaks from the bag-mag. The first couple of shots were done from a tripod and then I had a go handheld (at about 1/60)and they look to be fine too.

The only problem I had was not taking the dark slide out far enough. I've since drawn a thick line across the dark slide with a parcel marker to indicate when the slide has been retracted enough.

Operating the bag mag was slow and cumbersome compared to a grafmatic, but unless I find someone willing to swap some graflex ones for some of my graphic ones I'll have to stick to what I've got.

Even with the clumsy bag-mag this is still a much better way to work for portraits than the Speed Graphic. I think the auto is going to get a lot more use.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Graflex.org Forum Index -> Reflex Help All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group