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New(?) electronic flash for Graphic?
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2001 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This was aksed before by someone else, but it got off-topic quick. So I'm asking...

I'd like to find a handle mount electronic flash that could mount to the standard Speed Graphic side mounts, using the Graphic clamps preferably.

I've run into an f-stop problem when I just tried using my Vivitar 283. With a guide number of 110, it sure doesn't leave much room for depth of field past 10 feet or so.

I've looked at the Sunpak 622, but the handle has a square look. A GN of 200, but it doesn't look like it would mount.

Anyone know of a flash with a GN of 200+ that could be mounted? Older & used would be fine. Auto would be nice but not necessary.

Thanks...

Rich...
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jdman



Joined: 13 May 2001
Posts: 302
Location: Midwest

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2001 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you could live with a GN of 120 the Vivitar 3900 would probably work. Has 3 auto settings. 40-60 $ if you can find one. Russ
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2001 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norman makes the 400B and 200C. These are a pack and head type flash similar to a Metz.

There is no handle on the head, just a 1/4 20 socket. A length of dowel rod the right dia, and a furniture screw (one of those headless bolts with a wood thread on one end and a machine thread on the other) and your there. The 200C is supposed to be a 200ws flash, so is the Metz 60 CT1, The 400B is 400ws, but I've found the 400 rated at 1/4 power gave more than what my Metz put out.

The Metz has a GN of 197, so the 200C should be easily 220, the 400B GN of 320. The only downside to the Normans is they are a manual flash, no thyrister, no auto quench, in effect a reusable flash bulb. So you really need to think Guide Numbers!

If you wanted to get fancy, instead of the dowel rod, you could look for a Graflex or Heiland dummy tube, it's a lenght of ABS plastic with that cap we talked about on the last thread, the body is hollow so you can run your PC cord through it instead of wrapping it around something.

The Normans will not be cheap! The 400B is selling for $600 on ebay with the case, light and charger.

Somebody on the old helpboard was able to dismantle the head on a 200B and convert a Graphic flash to electonic flash, but at the moment I don't remember who he was.

[ This Message was edited by: Les on 2001-11-06 16:03 ]
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2001 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2001-11-06 13:10, jdman wrote:
If you could live with a GN of 120 the Vivitar 3900 would probably work. Has 3 auto settings. 40-60 $ if you can find one. Russ


Does it have a 1 1/2 inch round handle? I know Vivitar has made handle flashes in the past. Don't know if they still do? But 120 really isn't any better than the 110 of my 283's. Although just having a mounted potato masher on the Graphic would be worthwhile even if it wasn't more powerful...

Thanks, I'll look for a used one and description.
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2001 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2001-11-06 15:59, Les wrote:
Norman makes the 400B and 200C. These are a pack and head type flash similar to a Metz.

There is no handle on the head, just a 1/4 20 socket. A length of dowel rod the right dia, and a furniture screw (one of those headless bolts with a wood thread on one end and a machine thread on the other) and your there. The 200C is supposed to be a 200ws flash, so is the Metz 60 CT1, The 400B is 400ws, but I've found the 400 rated at 1/4 power gave more than what my Metz put out.

The Metz has a GN of 197, so the 200C should be easily 220, the 400B GN of 320. The only downside to the Normans is they are a manual flash, no thyrister, no auto quench, in effect a reusable flash bulb. So you really need to think Guide Numbers!

If you wanted to get fancy, instead of the dowel rod, you could look for a Graflex or Heiland dummy tube, it's a lenght of ABS plastic with that cap we talked about on the last thread, the body is hollow so you can run your PC cord through it instead of wrapping it around something.

The Normans will not be cheap! The 400B is selling for $600 on ebay with the case, light and charger.

Somebody on the old helpboard was able to dismantle the head on a 200B and convert a Graphic flash to electonic flash, but at the moment I don't remember who he was.

[ This Message was edited by: Les on 2001-11-06 16:03 ]


Hmmm, never thought of just a head? I didn't know they just mounted to a 1/4-20. The case and 1/4-20 is easy since it's a standard 1 1/2 inch size. But the price is something else... I probably wouldn't mind $200 for some good power (200 or so), but $400 is just a bit high. Maybe more than a bit...

I'm guessing the power is going to cost more than I'm willing to pay? Maybe I'll start searching for an old Honeywell or something for the looks more than the power?

As I vaugely remember, the old handle electric flashes were pretty much on top of a round battery case not much different than a Graflite. But that was a few years ago and haven't seen one since... And what would be the odds of one still working?

This might turn into an interesting search? And the conversion of a Graflite to electronic is something that sounds like fun!

Thanks...
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jdman



Joined: 13 May 2001
Posts: 302
Location: Midwest

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2001 4:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well the graflex mounts will not work on the 3900 as it is 1 and 5/8. It does come with a nice quick release mount, swivels, tilts etc. One on E-bay now. Another option that I use is the old #5 flashbulb, you get a lot of punch at the slower shutter speeds. Some of the old Graflex Strobe units had 200 GN but boy the price of those batteries. 160.00 a pair. Russ
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2001 5:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1 5/8 isn't that far off. The Graphic clips(?) could be modified by cutting off the band part and replacing it with a longer band held on by the screw.
I've seen a couple of 3900's ******* pretty cheap. I'll have to find a pic of one first, but at that price it would be worth picking up just for the looks instead of the 283 mounted on top of a battery case.
Boy I'd love to get my hands on a Graflex strobe just to have it. I've never even seen one *******... And I'm guessing it runs on 400+ volts DC. A convertor wouldn't be hard to make, but just too much trouble.

Since the 3900 has the same power as the 283 but better looks, I may pick one up anyway. But I'll keep searching for more power (that I can afford!).

Bulbs are great and I have quite a few #5's, but they are one-time-use after all and getting harder to come by. They do make an impression though!

And, DUH... Modify the clips... As long as the handle is long enough to fit between the two clips, they could be modified for almost and size or shape... That brings back the Sunpak 622 at GN200 and probably others... Off for another search

Rich...
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crvogt



Joined: 23 May 2001
Posts: 27
Location: Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2001 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You might want to poke arround some camera shops that deal in older equipment. Graflex made the Strob 500 ( ASA 100/GN 212) This came with 3 different base units, Battery (510v battery no longer available), AC, RG (uses Nicad Batteries). These are manual type flashes, but sure look nice on a Crown Graflex. You should look for a RG unit the nicad batteries can be referbished with Fresh Nicads.

Here is a picture of the Strob 500

http://home.rochester.rr.com/carlvogt/grafstrobe.htm






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Carl

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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2001 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2001-11-06 23:54, crvogt wrote:
You might want to poke arround some camera shops that deal in older equipment. Graflex made the Strob 500 ( ASA 100/GN 212) This came with 3 different base units, Battery (510v battery no longer available), AC, RG (uses Nicad Batteries). These are manual type flashes, but sure look nice on a Crown Graflex. You should look for a RG unit the nicad batteries can be referbished with Fresh Nicads.

Here is a picture of the Strob 500

http://home.rochester.rr.com/carlvogt/grafstrobe.htm


Thank you! Now I not only know the models, but what they look like. I still can't remember ever seeing them listed anywhere but I'll keep looking.

And if anyone happens to see one, please remember me

Thanks...
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2001 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's (I hope) is some photos of the dummy tube on a 2x3 pacemaker Speed along with one shot of the rubber adapter on a Graflite. The benefit of the dummy tube is the placement of the cord (it hides inside). I'm not sure which models, but I know some of the early Heiland and Graflex flash were "heads only" and used either a dummy or Graflite with the rubber adapter. Okay here goes:

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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2001 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2001-11-07 09:14, Les wrote:
Here's (I hope) is some photos of the dummy tube on a 2x3 pacemaker Speed along with one shot of the rubber adapter on a Graflite. The benefit of the dummy tube is the placement of the cord (it hides inside). I'm not sure which models, but I know some of the early Heiland and Graflex flash were "heads only" and used either a dummy or Graflite with the rubber adapter. Okay here goes:


Thanks for the photos, and they look great. Nice to see the adapter too. I did the same thing with a PVC pipe end. I still have to order the 1 1/2 inch funiture leg protectors, pretty much the same thing as the adapter minus the 1/4-20 bolt. But I never thought of a dummy tube. I'll pick up a tube when I stop in to order the protectors. Great idea for the storage if you have an external battery pack.

To find an old Graflex or even a Heiland flash... But since my 283 works and I do have some bulbs, there's no immediate rush. That's if I can get my impulsive behavior under control

Thanks!
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Harris Austin



Joined: 11 Nov 2001
Posts: 4
Location: NE Alabama

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2001 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Look on Ebay for a Vivitar 365-it has a round handle.
Guide # of 160 with ISO 100
Make sure you get the battery pack that uses 8 "C" cells instead of the one that uses those accursed 510 volt batteries.
Also make sure you get the sensor-as it is removeable,you could get a flash that does have it.
A 365 in good shape should run from $50 to $125 on Ebay
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2001 4:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2001-11-11 16:44, Harris Austin wrote:
Look on Ebay for a Vivitar 365-it has a round handle.
Guide # of 160 with ISO 100
Make sure you get the battery pack that uses 8 "C" cells instead of the one that uses those accursed 510 volt batteries.
Also make sure you get the sensor-as it is removeable,you could get a flash that does have it.
A 365 in good shape should run from $50 to $125 on Ebay


Thanks. I've come to realize that what I want and what I can afford are two different things. The 365 sounds interesting, but not easily found. Maybe ebay, but I have to admit that there's something about ebay that I just don't like and have yet to actually use the service. Maybe this will get me into it?

Rich...
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RichS



Joined: 18 Oct 2001
Posts: 1467
Location: South of Rochester, NY

PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2001 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just in case anyone might add to this with suggestions, I thought I'd post an update.

By chance, I happened to a used dealer that had an old Minolta 450 flash. I've wanted that for my 35mm XK systems since the early 70's and just couldn't resist since it was the first time I ever saw one listed. Unfortunately, that triggered the impulsive 'buy' switch in the brain. I wound up with a Vivitar 3900 (couldn't pass up the $19 price) and a Sunpak 622 Pro along with it. The Minolta will of course be more or less dedicated to my XK's, but what a nice old flash with a GN of 148. The 3900 needs a bracket, but it's useable...

The Sunpak 622... Well, it's got power and a host of neat features but why didn't someone tell me about the size!!! It even dwarfs the Speed Graphic! It's twice the size it has to be, and weight to match. It's so big it looks more like an oversized sales prop than an actual unit. Okay, it's a beautiful flash and works great, but gees... And unfortunately, the plastic bracket it has would never hold the weight of a Graphic and it's tube is 1 3/4. I plan on modifying a set of Graphic clamps so I can mount it without having anything break and settle for a while (until this is all paid off ).

Thanks for all the help here and keep me in mind if a Graphic strob pops up somewhere...

Rich...
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ajb



Joined: 01 Dec 2001
Posts: 7
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2001 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am the guy that modified a Graflite to take the flashtube and electronics of a Norman LH2 head. Photos and details via e-mail. ajbrent@juno.com

I am currently using a Metz 45CL mounted in the rangefinder bracket with a home made adapter. Since I do most shooting at 10 feet plus or minus, with 100 and 400 speed films, it has plenty of light. I don't think I would try to light up a large hall with it though. For that kind of job, the Norman is a better choice.

If I have to, I tripod mount the camera, lock the shutter open and walk around the scene popping off flashes here and there until I think I have enough. Polaroid is a great help in that situation.


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