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Model Designations

 
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prheavy



Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 2
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am an admirer of the Ciro-Flex/CiroFlex/Graflex 22 cameras and recently acquired my first one. I understand there are Ciro-Flex models A through F. How can you distinguish one model from another? Does anyone know of a listing of the different features associated with each model?
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t.r.sanford



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 812
Location: East Coast (Long Island)

PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2004 1:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps because they are not rare and "collectible," the "Ciro-Flex" TLRs don't seem to have attracted the attention of used-camera directory compilers.

"BlueBook Illustrated Price Guide to Collectible Cameras, First Master Edition (Photographic Memorabilia, Lexington, MA, 1982) does provide approximate dates for the "A" through "F" models, but only lists specifications for the "A" and "F."

The "A" has an 85mm. f:3.5 Wollensak "Velostigmat" in "Alphax" 1/10-1/200 sec. shutter, and is dated c.1942.

The "B" and "C" are dated c.1948, with no indication of what differed between the two models.

Similarly, the "D" and "E" are dated c.1950, with no further details.

The "F" also is dated c.1950, and is said to feature an f:3.2 Wollensak "Raptar" (focal length not specified) in "Rapax" 1-1/400 sec. shutter.

Perhaps people who own the "B," "C," "D" and "E" models could describe their lens and shutter equipment briefly, and someone could assemble a more or less detailed model history.

I think it not unlikely that the concurrent ones had different shutters, e.g. there may have been a choice between an unsynchronized and a synchronized shutter, or between a self-tensioning "Alphax" and a set-and-release "Rapax" with a wider range of speeds.

I once knew a girl who owned a "Ciro-Flex" with "Rapax" shutter, and it was a very well-made, capable, intelligently designed instrument. I think the line deserves more respect than it has gotten.
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turnergande



Joined: 20 Apr 2004
Posts: 1
Location: Montana

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Topic: Ciroflex Versions

I'll try to be brief on explaining what I researched as Ciroflex models differences. Model A is pre WWII or, no later than 1941-42 w Alphax non synch shutter, uncoated Velostigmat 83mm F3.5 lens (3 element?), large focus knob, 2 small film tension knobs on right side. Model B 1948-50 has Alphax non synch shutter, Anastigmat lens (3 element). Model C 1948-50 has Anastigmat lens plus the nicer Rapax shutter but it's non synch. Model D 1950, has simpler Alphax but it has synch, also 3 element Anastigmat, Model E 1950 is same as C except it has synch. Model F 1950 has 4 element Raptar lens, Rapax synch shutter. Misc: Older models apparently have plain ground glass, newer have fresnel. Older have parallax frame. Please let me know if I made any mistakes here. Please send me an email if you want even more details.

_________________
Gary Turner in Bozeman, Montana
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t.r.sanford



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 812
Location: East Coast (Long Island)

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always thought the "Velostigmat" to have been a four-element "Tessar" design, not dissimilar to the later "Raptar."

Are the three-element "anastigmat" lenses marked with a manufacturer's name?
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Dan Fromm



Joined: 14 May 2001
Posts: 1883
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

On 2004-04-21 07:17, t.r.sanford wrote:
I have always thought the "Velostigmat" to have been a four-element "Tessar" design, not dissimilar to the later "Raptar."

Are the three-element "anastigmat" lenses marked with a manufacturer's name?
T.R., Velostigmat and Raptar are catchalls like Ektar. For example, I have a mystery Velostigmat that's a triplet and a Raptar that's a plasmat type. And I have Ektars that are tessar types, 4 element wide angle gauss types, 7 element gauss types, ...

I like consistent naming conventions too, but that's too much to hope for, especially for products made in Rochester, NY.

Cheers,

Dan
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t.r.sanford



Joined: 10 Nov 2003
Posts: 812
Location: East Coast (Long Island)

PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know you're right about the wide-angle "Velostigmat" and "Raptar," which seem to be classic double anastigmat designs, and about "Ektars" in general. The "Velostigmat" in my possession, a 7-in. f:4.5, is a Tessar type.

I'm not sure the German makers were a whole lot more consistent, overall; and the Japanese seem to have avoided the issue altogether, in which I think they have been wise.
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mercu80



Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 2
Location: italy

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just bought one in ebay..

I had a couple of question:

1 mine has the viewfinder glass, (the one in which you look before to tale pics..) really dark..grey..is this normal?

2 the lever that opens the upper part (the tilt open) is broken....do you think it can be repaired?
3 i can't date it and there is no model indication...can anyone help if i post pics?

thanx a lot in advance..

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78ltd



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 55
Location: Texas

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 83mm F/3.2 lens is a Tessar type. All the other 85mm F/3.5 lenses are triplets. I have several.
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