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3 x 4 rollfilm back mystery

 
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jjwalker



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 29
Location: upper midwest

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

everyone likes a mystery right? Well I got my first super d finally a 3x4 and it came with a rollback for 120 film. It is a simple affair mostly made out of sheet metal and it seems the front portion of a garflex 3 x 4 film holder has been laminated to this smaller rollfilm holder. Now for the big question. It seems this contraption holds the film very flat and looks good but the film plane is a full 3 to 4 millimeters away from the original film plane hole! In other words, it holds the film back from the flush position that a single shot regular film holder would hold the film. you know pressed tight into the felt light trap material around the hole. Now this is where it gets weird for me at least, I put the film holder on and took out the roller assembly. Then I put a chunk of ground glass exactly where a piece of film would sit. The picture was sharp and clear and it matched almost exactly the image as seen through the chimney on the focusing glass! You are probably thinking no problem then what are you bitching about right? Well what happens when I want to shoot real 3 x 4 sheet film??
If I position the ground glass in that film plane position the image is blurry and not even close to focused. Did someone mess with this so it would focus only on this crazy rollback? Am I going to have to shim up my sheet film holders somehow then? Or do they actually sit back that far too? I have never seen one for a 3 x 4 super d? Ideas??????
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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3228
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have a factory made Ground Glass back for the camera?
Remember that the camera uses a Graflex back.
Just measured an early graflex film holder, mating face to film back plate=5.93mm; fidelity elete for graflok=4.78mm.
Sounds like the roll film holder was modified to work with the camera.
Charles

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[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2004-04-14 20:09 ]
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jjwalker



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 29
Location: upper midwest

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So are you saying a regular "Graflex" type film holder would hold the film at about 4.78mm from the back of the camera, just like this rollfilm back does?

See the problem is I have never seen or experienced a super d SHEET film holder before. The closest I have gotten is on my auto graflex jr. But that I modified to hold a rh10 rollfilm holder and it is mounted flush and firmly to the back of the camera with no 5mm offset. I tested it and it seems fine so I was thinking that the super d should have its film holders holding the film flush tight to the back too. That is why I was suprised by the drop back or spacing between the film plane and the back of the camera on this film holder.
By the way where can I find a 3 x 4 graflex cut film holder? They must be pretty scarce. A Graphic type seems easy to find.
I got the 3 x4 because they are cheaper and I have a infared camera system setup in my changing bag so I can trim 4 x 5 easily down to 3 x 4 if I want to.
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

3x4 film hasn't been around until the last year or so. If you owned this camera say 5 years ago, whould you pay 4x5 sheet filmprices and then cut it down? Nah I'd kludge up a roll film back and then adjust the ground glass (chimney) so it works.

Les
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Les



Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 2682
Location: Detroit, MI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would think that a real Graflex 23 roll film holder for the graflex would put the roll film in the same plane as a 3x4 Graflex film holder.

45PSS is saying that Graflex holders keep the film farther back than Graphic holders for a Graflok back.

Without photos, I"m only guessing, but is sounds like somebody modified a roll film holder to fit the camera and then shimmed the ground glass so it matched the roll back.

3x4 Grafelx holder can be found on ebay without too much difficulty.

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45PSS



Joined: 28 Sep 2001
Posts: 3228
Location: Mid Peninsula, Ca.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Code:
back edge of camera |....| face of film
____________________|....|  holder that
_________________________| touches camera.
_________________________|-| where back of
_________________________|-| sheet of film
_________________________|-| is held or face
____________________C____B-A  of gg on
                             camera back.

Distance A-B:
Graflex=5.75mm approx.
Graphic=4.75mm approx.
(my guages and work surface limit exactness. I may be .25mm more than actual)
I agree with Les's assumption that the camera may have been modified for that roll holder.
I hope this helps clear up the measurement points so that you can determine if it has or not.
Charles


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While a picture may be worth a thousand words, a quality photograph is worth a million.

[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2004-04-15 18:36 ]
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jjwalker



Joined: 05 Sep 2003
Posts: 29
Location: upper midwest

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 3:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with you guys and had a sneaking suspicion that someone had shimmed up the ground glass to match the distance of the rollback modification. This presents another problem. I think that if I buy a bag mag for this I may have to try to shim that up as well, that may be tricky but worth it for me.
At 400 to 600 dollars for a 4x5 super D I just can't afford that and am happy with this 3x4 and cutting film down a bit if I get the hankering for shooting sheet film.
Later on maybe I will post the results if I do get a bag mag and shim it successfully. I sure would like to have both rollback and sheet film capabilities on this camera.
Thanks everyone!
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